Former Sportswriter debunks the Myths About Lin

In social media age, information (false or not) travels/spread million times faster than how it was in the old days. The good thing about it is we get broader/deeper/quicker access to the information of the sport/teams/players we like/hate. However, the problem arises when the information is too easy to spread, with almost no moderation. False narratives/facts start to flood our twitter timeline, fan sites, or even larger sport websites. Here is an excellent fan post by Nathan Gottlieb on his blog ranting about the false narratives about Jeremy Lin across the NBA community. Nathan Gottlieb is a former sportswriter for 19 years covering NBA. Please go read it and I will quote a few from his piece here as follow:

“If I wrote that back in the day when I covered the Knicks, my editor would have at least asked me how I had come to my conclusions about Lin. But today, fan sites have no editors. All these wannabe writers just want is to see their name in print. And to go all Stephen Smith and Barkley with a rant that draws attention to THEM, not the players they pontificate about.”

When I was writing for my New Jersey newspaper, I often covered Princeton’s basketball games, home and on the road. The coach, Pete Carril invented the Princeton Offense. He was a genius as a coach. I saw first hand what the Princeton Offense does. It requires ball movement (no Hardens allowed!), and a really smart point guard. It was pure beauty to watch.

 

The second quote of “a really smart point guard” must have reminded us one of the very smart PG we know.
Follow Nathan Gottlieb on twitter here.

 

As Paul Villarreal (another must follow for Lin fans) of Conservative New Media said:

“Don’t allow Doubters to control the microphone. If you do, then Doubter-speak will rule the day while we argue against it.”
We as Lin fans need to spread our own narratives, to control the microphone.

  • wu kong

    He hits the nail on the head. So much of the ‘news’ now whether it is sports or politics or world news is written not by verified organizations with editors. it is anyone with access to a computer. Even with editors legit news sources have agendas but this wild wild west approach to news is a bit disturbing. And people wonder why we refute articles and try to post the truth… people make fun of the Lin army for truth and justice. ha! be afraid you worthless writers of false narratives we will find you and we will make you retract your lies. bwwwhhhaaa.

  • wu kong
  • Brent Yen

    Wow, wu kong in full throttle ranting mode!

  • Nice summary, Brent!

    We need to support Nathan’s effort to debunk wannabe-writers. Maybe we can have Stats Summary page using @disqus_dVLDET9zJ7:disqus ‘s data in a format (picture/chart) easily tweeted/posted. I haven’t had time to create one but this is seriously something to consider to educate people. We’ll let the stats speak for itself.

    Example:
    “Limited offensive ability” -> “2nd driving FG% only after LeBron”. Bam!

  • Brent Yen

    Good idea! can be used in blog posts too…

  • wu kong

    feel free to grab whatever I have and do what you will with it… I really like some of the latest tweets from DallasJack… http://jlinarticlesandfacts.proboards.com/post/2724/thread

    I started a tweet ready post… here: http://jlinarticlesandfacts.proboards.com/post/1830/thread but charts and grpahs are obviously good too. if they are kept simple.

  • webattorney

    No need to debunk anyone; let Lin do his thing and see.

  • Brent Yen

    I think that is one of the points Nathan tried to make

  • You have a good point.

    Being over-aggressive can be counter-productive. But it’s good to keep good stats to benchmark his performance.

  • Brent Yen

    I am personally very partial on numbers, but I think it is a good way to fight the false narratives…

  • Brent Yen

    Thanks!!!

  • real-dsb

    I agree that’s it counterproductive to go on forums and argue with people. But I think it’s good to publish quality articles and videos, where unbiased people who are looking for facts can find it.

  • webattorney

    Agreed.

  • webattorney

    Agreed. My point is this: whatever happened in the past could become moot once Lin starts to play for Lakers. While Lin did not “suck” with Rockets, it’s not as if Lin played awesome either (yes, he did have some awesome games). In fact, Lin played decently in a system not designed for him, nothing more, nothing less. Therefore, why try to argue on this point, and in particular, try to argue that Lin played “great” with Rockets?

    I would argue that Lin played around level 6 (overall) from 1 to 10 with Rockets, but Lin could end up playing 8, 9 or 10 with Lakers, so why try to argue that Lin played 8, 9 or 10 with Rockets (if that is what you are trying to do) when Lin probably played around level 6 with Rockets? That is the point I am trying to make here.

  • Brent Yen

    I think a lot of times it was because ppl thinks he is a level 2 player, so…even tho his numbers with roxs does not correlate to his future LAL days. But still….you can argue he is at least a level 6 player.

    Another way to look at it, if some fact was not presented correctly, then simply present it the right way is a good thing. In this case it is regardless of which level Lin is at…

  • I understand that the reality that Houston system simply didn’t feature Lin’s strength well and the raw numbers reflected that. Unfortunately, we also know Houston media did not do a good job to praise Lin when he did well. I believe Lin fans and informed NBA analysts know that but most NBA writers are not informed yet.

    I don’t think we are arguing that his Houston numbers are great but it’s good to inform others about his good performance (underrated defense, 2nd driving FG% after LeBron). Many articles (raining3s, recent Laker stats article) by non-Lin fans look at the detailed number to discover that Lin’s defense is as effective as Bev’s despite different style.

    The goal is simple. To bring awareness that Lin has more potential than the raw numbers in Houston so more people can bring the awareness to Lakers coach staff that eventually matter in how they use Lin well.

    In your analogy, Husband B doesn’t necessarily know the pretty woman well and choose to spend time with other wives. That is until a few good friends tell her about her good qualities. Then he chose to give her more trust and spend more time with her. All because he trust the words of his friends.

    See my point is we don’t have to argue that she looked beautiful with Husband A but as a good friend we tell Husband B that she has lots more potential in her limited chances. Too bad the stepmom and stepsisters hated her and never spoke of her good qualities.

    I think we need to be that good friend who tell Husband B of her potential w/o getting too aggressive or upset when people don’t want to listen. Otherwise, the woman might miss some good opportunities to showcase her good qualities and would move on to Husband C. It might be too dramatic but hopefully you get the point about the unrealized potential.

  • webattorney

    The fact of the matter is unless they watched many Lin games and understand the context in which Lin played, they will not be persuaded. Based on Lin’s current stats alone, no one will be convinced he is an All Star caliber. I think he is capable of playing to that level, but I have no proof based on numbers. I am being honest when I say I have seen Lin play like an All Star but also like a scrub. He definitely has a high ceiling. I think his ceiling is 18/8 for season, whereas Bev’s ceiling is 14/5 as starters.

  • Brent Yen

    I guess the point here is to convince ppl he is not a scrub, instead of proving that he is an ALL-Star.

  • True, we definitely cannot say Lin plays like an All-Star in Houston 🙂

    We can only say “Hey, there are bursts of All-Star performance in some games so there is potential when he handles the ball a lot w/o Harden”.

    All we can hope is that Byron would give opportunities for Lin to handle the ball a lot (which he most likely will with Nash/Kobe sitting out a few games). Then Lin needs to prove to himself that he can consistently deliver All-Star like performance.

  • Maknusia

    Good Find! Brent. Thanks. Yeah we need more articles such as this to wake up the blinded folks.

    Double Cheers to you 🙂

  • loc vu

    Ok. Bad anology. I thought you are an attorney?
    Wife, husbands…what is this? Day of our lives, general hospital.drama? Smh.
    **** all jlin fans gotta do is present facts and stats…no more, no less.
    I’m sure, the reasonable one’s will.eventually change their tune.

  • webattorney

    not an attorney. used to be. the problem is most lin fans don’t present facts.

  • webattorney

    Let’s be honest: Linsanity led to Lin getting paid well; he performed decently with Houston and improved his weak areas (yes, Lin still has some weak areas like all players), but Lin is absolutely a better BB player now. I will be even more honest: I am not sure a team where Lin is either the highest or second highest scorer will be able to win a championship or make it to Finals. To me, Lin should be at the most 3rd highest scorer in the team and act mostly as a facilitator for THAT team to go very far. The sad thing is that in Houston, they could have done that. If Kawhi Leonard was playing instead of Harden, they COULD have done that. The biggest cause was Harden, even though McHale and Morey allowed Harden to do anything. Basically, Harden and Dwight are dumb and dumber. With Lakers, they don’t have enough talent to go that far. Lakers probably won’t make it to playoff this season; if someone wants to make a friendly wager up to $500 USD to donate to Lin Foundation, let me know.

  • webattorney

    Even Nathan points out that Lin’s TOs are pretty high, no matter how you look at it. Therefore, I think this is one of those things where the numbers do not necessarily help Lin. Now, from what I observed, many of Lin’s assists lead to very, very easy shots. To me, not all assists are the same. This is why for Lin, it’s ok to have higher TOs because often his assists lead to really easy shots.

  • loc vu

    For some1 yapping how much money you making, you sure lack many things…
    My comment was for kicks
    and fun: hint..lol and jk referenced.
    I don’t care what you think other posters what not…you aint that important.
    If you can’t tell the differenced between friendly chat fun, then I suggest you need a class course in how to differentiated what is humor andwhat is seriousness 101….smh.
    Btw, this is.the first time I.ever commented your posting, so chill out. Relax.
    Btw, you not going to jlin site is DEFINITELY A GREAT THING…poster like.myself DON’T have to hear your SUPPOSEDLY mature conversation..
    ~~ says no one ever.

  • webattorney

    I came here precisely because too many JL posters are like you there, making snide remarks about the poster. I never get too personal with another poster unless the other poster starts getting too personal. If you look at the above record, you are the one who started this thing.

    If you said it was a bad analogy and then explained why, I would have had no problem with it, but instead, you referenced it saying I was an attorney so I must be a bad attorney to have made a bad analogy? And now, you expect me to have known that you were making “fun” remarks? Oh, yes, I was just joking also. “Loc ” vu, man. And stay away. I will let moderators decide and take an appropriate action since there are moderators here and everything is on record.

    By the way, even though I can afford more things, I don’t like to spend a lot of money on things I don’t think are important to me, and among those things are: paying big money for Lakers tickets. Instead, I just donated $300 to an orphanage in Mexico.

  • wu kong

    @loc_vu:disqus and @webattorney:disqus play nice in the sand box.

  • webattorney

    I do unto others as they do unto me. 🙂 Not “Do unto others as you would like to have them do unto you.” This is why I can’t be Christian. 🙂

  • wu kong

    I am posting this openly instead of sending you both DM’s because I think we need to be rather clear that this site will be moderated… there are a lot of mods and we collaborated on this site to provide a less stressful place to discus jlin without the personal attacks

  • webattorney

    I flagged and notified the mod. Understood.

  • wu kong

    Thanks!

  • webattorney

    Thank you. I won’t retaliate by responding anymore here. Instead, I will flag and notify a mod and let mod look into it and decide. I believe that is a better approach. But it was so enjoyable to retaliate. 🙂 Just to clarify, all I have to do is flag the post and click on it?

  • wu kong

    That should work you can always DM a mod as well. the flagging may take a bit longer to take care of… if you DM a mod that is online that should be quicker response.

  • wu kong

    On this site we would like you to NOT retaliate. Stay on topic and play nice in the sandbox.

    If you feel you are being harassed instead of jumping in and doing the same back please report the problem. We do not want the back and forth name calling. Please flag a post or notify a mod.

  • webattorney

    My point is that it’s sad to even try to convince people that he’s not a scrub. If someone thinks he’s a scrub, then it’s almost impossible to persuade the person because there is already a bias built in.

  • webattorney

    Yes, a good article posting by Brent. I am duly impressed. Nathan seems like a fair guy who appreciates Lin’s strengths. I mean he seems to have watched IN PERSON the first game that started the Linsanity, so he must have a good perspective on Lin. As I have alluded to in the past, the first time I though “Hey, this guy can play in NBA” was when I saw him play against UConn by chance (I never heard of him until then) and scored with ease when he had to score as the only player for Harvard capable of scoring against UConn, especially attacking the rim. I really thought then that Lin would be drafted AT LEAST in 2nd round, so I was surprised when that didn’t happen. Then, I heard Warriors picked him up. Having UConn game was the reason I started following Lin, so I was persuaded that Lin could play in NBA, but I obviously was not prepared for the Linsanity. I don’t think Lin himself was either. Therefore, I was already persuaded that Lin could play in NBA before Linsanity. Then, his performance against Wall during the summer season further cemented my belief that Lin could play in NBA. I am not one of Lin fans who saw the Linsanity and then started believing or over-reacting. I sort of knew Miami Heat would shut him down because really, up to that time, Knicks had not faced top 5 NBA teams such as Heat or OKC.

  • loc vu

    Lol….again….good for you..too much cash flows can lead to arrogant, snide personality?…moderators for what? …..you are so laughable, I PITY THE FOOL!…oh well, whatever nevermind…gl with the Benz too. ..what a joke you are attorney….wow!!!

  • @loc_vu:disqus and @webattorney:disqus , please refrain from personal attacks and retaliate and being condescending to put down others. We are all JLin fans first so let’s avoid attacking one another. There are no good things that can come out from putting down others. It would simply fill up the discussion space here unnecessarily and causing frustration for other users.

    Let’s stay on topic and be respectful in expressing our opinions when we disagree.
    If you haven’t done so, please read the website Rules at :
    http://www.jlinportal.com/website-rules-must-read/, especially on Rule #1:

    1. We take the “Be Polite & Be Respectful” rule very seriously. We do not tolerate any rudeness. Any member who is intentionally unpleasant or disruptive may be banned without warning.
    Keep it in general PG-13 low R ratings

    loc , it’s okay to disagree with the analogy but please refrain from using the statement to put down one’s profession (“attorney”). As you can see I didn’t agree but I took the time to try to understand where he came from and explain my perspective.

    webattorney, please refrain from retaliating and launching counter-attacks (i.e inferring ‘idiots’).

    Please give some time to let cooler heads prevail. I do appreciate to see your effort to refrain from responding negatively further.

  • @disqus_dVLDET9zJ7:disqus, thank you for being a good mod 🙂

  • webattorney

    I was going to delete them anyway now that I am better informed of the site policy. Yes, I didn’t take kindly to his linking what he thought was a bad analogy (without explaining) to my former profession and then saying “just joking”. Good thing this site is moderated well.

  • Brent Yen

    that is indeed sad…….very true

  • Brent Yen

    I followed a reversed process I guess…haha I knew Lin b4 Linsanity, but I just was not following him until that day….

  • Brent Yen

    I think it is well handled…

  • Brent Yen

    Weird I only saw this now…m….To me a PG has to run a team, not just giving assists…I guess I will start another comment….for this.

  • Brent Yen

    @webattorney:disqus talked about the quality of Lin’s assists. I just wanna add a few thought of mine about this. I was arguing AST/TOV ratio with my Lin doubter friends the other night. His TOV numbers indeed does not look good on paper. My points for a good PG is actually simple…..A PG simply needs to be smart. Of course the same can be said for every positions, but more so to the guy who handles the ball more….which typically is a PG..

    It is true that a PG should be able to give high quality ASTs to help his teammates to score. BUT that is not the most important skill a PG should have. I think the most important one is the skill the read and run a team. Giving good ASTs is just one of the way to do it. He should be able to direct traffic, finding mismatches, react to the defense schemes and call the right play, etc. The ability to run a team will rack up “team ASTs” automatically, instead of personal AST number.

    Everyone played organized bball would know if you call the right play and your teammates are at the right positions, once the ball leaves your hands…it will find the right person then go into the baskets. Just like dominos…. Giving good ASTs will make your teammates easy to score, but if you can run the team and make sure everyone is at the right position, then they will even score easily without your ASTs. This in my mind is just at another higher level of team plays.

    Lin is clearly able to actually run a team. The counterexample I love to use is Westbrook. While RWB is a excellent impactful player, he is simply not a good PG. JMO.

  • 100% agree. What I watched in amazement during Linsanity run in NY was clearly Lin’s ability to read defenses, exploit mismatches and elevate his teammates play. It was definitely skill and not luck to be able to do it consistently (albeit imperfectly with inexperience and at times careless ball-handling skills). I believe this court-vision was what Hall-of-Famer Bob Cousy recognized during his interview.
    “Cousy coos over Lin’s speed, vision”

    As far as TOs, Lin has cleaned up silly ball-handling TOs in NY by his 2nd season in HOU. He has also become conservative not threading good-but-risky passes (thanks to Asik’s butter hands & no-thanks partly to McHale’s pet peeves of TOs and preferring bad shots). As long as Lin continues to pattern his game like Steve Nash (who also has high TO rate) but can shoot lights-out, people will overlook that part. If Lin continues to play with confidence like he did in the playoff, I think he will perform quite well in LA.
    Note: I remember reading somewhere during 1st/2nd season of Houston that HOU won most games when Lin had 4-5TOs. I believe it’s a byproduct of Lin’s aggressiveness to run the offense resulting in wins. It might be worth digging again just for fun 🙂

    He still has that innate court-vision and he can shoot/score more confidently now. With an ex-guard coach who recognizes his triple-threat potential, bigs who can shoot to complement his PnR and his confidence to score/shoot, I think we’re ready for a perfect storm to brew in LA.

  • blubell

    So to sum it up… PG needs high BB IQ 😉

  • Brent Yen

    Pretty much so…:P

  • Brent Yen

    What HOU did to hurt Lin the most is the time where Lin would just drive and do pivot. He was trying to cut down TOVs hence he could not make decisive plays. Rehut said it is because Lin can not read the 2nd layer of defense. To some degree, it is true. BUT it is not because he could not read it, it was simply because the McHale effect IMO. Actually it is one of the things I am gonna watch next yr.

  • wu kong

    “Everyone played organized bball would know if you call the right play and your teammates are at the right positions, once the ball leaves your hands…it will find the right person then go into the basket.”

    This is one of the things I think was a problem in the HOU system. Their read and react system makes it very difficult for a point guard to operate.

    In a standard system there are set plays and the PG calls a play and then the players go to their expected positions. The point guard can then anticipate where a teammate will be and pass the ball to that position ( think quarterback in football) They are NOT just throwing to anywhere and hoping a teammate happens to read their mind and magically go to where he is going to throw the ball.

    IN the HOU read an react system the PG not only has to read the opposition but he has to read his teammates’ mind and anticipate where they ‘should’ be. He then has to adjust for that teammate and what he knows about that teammate and where they most likely will go. Did they see that opening that he saw? will they go to that position so I can throw the ball to them? all of this is a split second.

  • wu kong

    I think this is the biggest factor in PG’s leaving houston and doing much better elsewhere. You might be able to develop that ESP with players if a group was together for several seasons but Morey is constantly changing the players so the PG never gets the chance to even begin to anticipate their teammates reactions.

    You can read about players that played many seasons together and they talk about just knowing what the other guy will do. HOU will never have players around long enough for that to happen as long as Morey is in charge.

  • wu kong

    There is a reason that teams develop set plays. Sure when a play falls apart you may have to ‘wing it’ ( A la Jlin grabbing Hardens TO and quickly passing to Daniels for the 3 point winner) But this is taxing on our mind to constantly be in that mode. Set plays give your mind a break and allow you to play instinctively… To rely on muscle memory.

    I think this is why we saw a lot of isolation 1 on 1 plays in HOU and a lot of players just standing around. They simply did not know what to do.

  • Brent Yen

    HOU is not really read and react because ball stops at Harden or D12’s hands……

  • Lin sees the second layer/help defenders. He actually drives to draw them in. Problem is that his teaates are not taking advantage of the rotating second layer/help defenders. They are not aware. Bugs do not move to the open passing lanes. Perimeter players don’t cut. In other words spacing was poor.

  • wu kong

    yes. Lin sees what to do… and is hoping they follow his lead… but often they don’t. They don’t see the floor like he does.

    Set plays might make them move to a certain spot just of muscle memory and would not required immediate thought/calculation on their part. Also I think the stagnant movement is a product of the moreyball 3’s and rim only… the players are hesitant to move from the 3 point line

  • webattorney

    IMO, a PG that does what you say the best is PC3 and Nash when he was younger. CP3 does this effortlessly actually because he’s both savvy and has a good dribbling skills. Because he possesses these qualities, I actually think CP3 can play effectively until he’s 40. If CP3 had a better shooting skills, i.e., Nash, he would be unstoppable.

  • Brent Yen

    PC3? you mean CP3? I think so….those 2 definitely qualify. They are not athletic guards either…..it says a lot.

  • 7iger

    Mod here are working too fast can I at least read some of those comments before them were delete. Hehehe I kid.

  • k.smith

    Agreed, especially the 2nd paragraph. I thought he played around level 6 too…sometimes level 5.

  • It’s a good thing they were cleaned up before a certain Tiger comes and pounces on them 🙂

  • k.smith

    “With Lakers, they don’t have enough talent to go that far.”

    “Lakers probably won’t make it to playoff this season.”

    “I am not sure a team where Lin is either the highest or second highest scorer will be able to win a championship or make it to Finals. To me, Lin should be at the most 3rd highest scorer in the team and act mostly as a facilitator for THAT team to go very far.”

    You’re doing all the work for me. I’m thinking this too.

  • k.smith

    I’m confident that rational fans who watch basketball know that Lin isn’t a scrub. The only thing I don’t like seeing is fans grouping Lin with Collison and Sessions.

  • Brent Yen

    LOL

  • Brent Yen

    Yeah…personal skill is definitely one of the tools you need to reach that status. But I think at least it is learn-able..Some innate PG skills can not be learned IMO. So in that sense, Lin is actually having a higher ceiling than those who do not possess those innate abilities.

  • blubell

    When they do follow Jeremy’s lead, they were often rewarded with easy baskets. I always thought Dmo did this well with the little PT he had with Jeremy.

  • Brent Yen

    Yes! let’s see if his new teammates can be any different!

  • This Tiger is what I’m afraid of 🙂

  • 311

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/sports/basketball/the-evolution-of-jeremy-lin-as-a-point-guard.html?pagewanted=all

    Still, the same traits Lin showed in Golden State quickly emerged. He was the first to arrive every day, and the last to leave. He sought and devoured game tapes. When he requested his own clips, Lin asked to see his turnovers and missed jumpers, not his assists.

    In side sessions with the assistant Kenny Atkinson, Lin kept working on his jump shot and his decision making in pick-and-roll situations. The coaches instantly recognized his ability to blow past defenders, but without much regard for what he would do once he beat them. So they worked on footwork, judgment and subtle movements to freeze a defender.

    What do you guys think about this? The article makes it sound like Knicks coaches were a big reason in developing Lin’s decision-making but I think he’s had that for quite some time. Even coach Diepenbrock praised Lin about his decision-marking IIRC.